Curse

eximiis · Sep 11, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Answers you will find in this thread. Please read the thread. My question is how many times people have to post the same arguments over and over? 7 heroes reduces the possibility of PUGs if you want detailed arguments read the thread. BTW most of the people against the heroes have guilds so I do not get your advice of finding one.

I have read this thread. the same arguments are post over and over because they are true. If ppl already have a guild then play with your guilds and don't pug. experience with pugs are bad.

And NO 7 heroes will NOT REDUCE the possibility of PUGS. the possibility are already kill !!!!

It's like shooting on a dead body. He's already dead so he won't die more !

Inner Salbat · Sep 11, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

I have read this thread. the same arguments are post over and over because they are true. If ppl already have a guild then play with your guilds and don't pug. experience with pugs are bad.

And NO 7 heroes will NOT REDUCE the possibility of PUGS. the possibility are already kill !!!!

It's like shooting on a dead body. He's already dead so he won't die more !

There not dead just bad now and again once in a blue moon while standing on the head of a pin with your little toe you get a good one, then it disintegrates before your eyes just as soon as it was formed, because people have what is called a "life" you know something other than behind a keyboard/mouse ( I know strange isn't it ), they don't have time to complete the entire of say FoW/UW/DoA or any other area, and I respect them if they have to leave because real life is more important.

How much do they suck? I watched my wife do The Wilds / Bloodstone Fen / Aurora Glade .. lets say after 2 weeks of watching her try with PuG after PuG and then getting to Aurora Glade and getting the same trash PuGs, I walked in there myself ripped the place to shreds with some other strange person tagging long with my wife, the ele was in the group she was in before I came a long I didn't want to be mean so she came too.

The only thing 7 heros will do is add more fun, and I can quit cursing ArenaNet for it's suck henchman builds and blame myself for my own suck build which would make me make it suck less.

JDRyder · Sep 11, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

LOL -true! Your argument "is dumb..." If the thread were about a sword that killed everything in 1 hit, then chances are most of us would agree. But, since its not...

Try arguing the actual point instead of some ridiculous, exaggerated one.

you can replace that with any thing really, if people wanted something that would ruin the game, is it a good idea? A lot of stuff sounds good on paper.

try making a point other then trolling

sixofone · Sep 11, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

you can replace that with any thing really, if people wanted something that would ruin the game, is it a good idea?

try making a point other then trolling

I swore I wouldn't do this, but...

Considering that the way you argue is little more than trolling.

You keep stating things like "would ruin the game" when that hasn't been shown, nor even agreed with. Given the feedback here, it is overwhelmingly considered that using heroes has been a positive experience for people vs. PUGging. Can I say that's good for the game? Don't know. I can only say it's something I desire, and have enjoyed H&Hing.

So, again, how exactly does adding the use of 7 heroes ruin the game? By making it harder to PUG, in PvE? Hardly ruins anything - but, then again, I don't PUG, so I can appreciate your concerns.

Ack! Why do I bother responding to your posts...

DreamWind · Sep 11, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

And most people here argued for nerfing Ursan, iirc.

LoL? Ok for your benefit lets replace Ursan with Soul Reaping. The most whiney thread in the history of this forum...most people not wanting it nerfed even though it should have been nerfed years ago for the better of the game. See what I'm getting at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

Please - no more of the "should something bad be added to the game no matter how many people want it" arguments. Obviously the answer is no. But, you make a huge leap about what is "bad for the game" when you equate 7 heroes with imba OP God-mode!

The leap isn't that huge. Something is either good for the game or it isn't.

sixofone · Sep 11, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

LoL? Ok for your benefit lets replace Ursan with Soul Reaping. The most whiney thread in the history of this forum...most people not wanting it nerfed even though it should have been nerfed years ago for the better of the game. See what I'm getting at?

The leap isn't that huge. Something is either good for the game or it isn't.

On your first point, I'm in the camp that still feels SR is OP.

As for the second, yes. But, you need to argue the specifics, not a generalized statement like that. Agreeing that you don't add something bad for the game does not equate to saying the use of 7 heroes is bad for the game.

To be clear: what you are arguing is - 7 heroes = bad for the game. To go back to JD's exaggerated example, we're not arguing about adding a 1-hit-kills-everything weapon. That's why I posted what I did - to get the thread back on point.

Stick with the specifics of what is being discussed here, not generalized exaggerations. That's what I mean by leap. "If A is bad for the game, B must be also" isn't a logical argument. Agreeing that A is bad doesn't mean agreeing that B must also be bad.

DreamWind · Sep 11, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

On your first point, I'm in the camp that still feels SR is OP.

That isn't the point. The point is that the majority of people on these forums thought soul reaping shouldn't have been touched, yet the intelligent people knew that it should have been completely destroyed because it was bad for the game.

There are a lot of people in this thread saying that since most people voted for 7 heroes, then it should be added to the game. As the soul reaping example shows, this isn't neccessarily true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

As for the second, yes. But, you need to argue the specifics, not a generalized statement like that. Agreeing that you don't add something bad for the game does not equate to saying the use of 7 heroes is bad for the game.

The specifics have been stated over and over again so I won't go over them. I'm just stating that you can't say "since most people think H/H is a positive experience instead PuGs, that is good enough reason to add 7 heroes" because as stated above, positive experiences don't always equate to a good thing.

JDRyder · Sep 11, 2008, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

I swore I wouldn't do this, but...

Considering that the way you argue is little more than trolling.

You keep stating things like "would ruin the game" when that hasn't been shown, nor even agreed with. Given the feedback here, it is overwhelmingly considered that using heroes has been a positive experience for people vs. PUGging. Can I say that's good for the game? Don't know. I can only say it's something I desire, and have enjoyed H&Hing.

So, again, how exactly does adding the use of 7 heroes ruin the game? By making it harder to PUG, in PvE? Hardly ruins anything - but, then again, I don't PUG, so I can appreciate your concerns.

Ack! Why do I bother responding to your posts...

its guru and there's like 4-6 people posting here, how does that make something overwhelmingly disagreed with?

A lot of people also say ursan was fun

if you dont pug how do you know any thing about how good they are

if you dont pug how do you know what will happen to pugs if 7 heros are added?

If you added 7heros you'd be able to solo places like DoA etc, they are places that were made for guild groups and friends, part of the reason they didnt add henchmen there in the 1st place. That gives people like you a reason to be in a guild,have friends or even pug.

You have not ask any Q that was not already asked/answered.

eximiis · Sep 11, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

@ JDRyder

Are you a pugger ??

If yes, how do U know that 7 heroes are bad for pugs ??

How come you still didn't notice pugs are bad ???

Have you ever seen a good pug ?? Have you ever found a pug in Snake Dance ??? Can i pm you to help me with Snake Dance or should i take henchman ???

DoA = 2 players with 6 heroes !!! If that's your only concern, then restrict to 2 human to enter those place. But then again, 8 perma/terra can clear the whole UW in ??? 10-30 mins ?? but i could bring my 7 heroes ?? why not ?

R.Shayne · Sep 11, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

positive experiences don't always equate to a good thing.

The lack of logic is amazing. PuGs are dead and PuGs are what killed them, not heroes. I had stopped joining pugs before Sorrow’s Furnace was released.

If you don’t think full hero parties are needed then go to Urgoz and try to get a PuG team together, pack a lunch. Remember only real players, no heroes and no guild or alliance members. They are people that don’t join Guilds or are part of a PvP guild and switching guilds is not something anyone should be forced to do just to play an elite mission. Yes they have just as much right as you and I when it comes to elite missions; they paid the same amount for the game. If you succeed in getting a PuG together then see how far you get.

Seven Heroes or henchmen in elite missions are needed. I would rather see heroes since they offer the customer the best chance of success and if a customer has a positive experience they may become a repeat customer.

Sleeper Service · Sep 11, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

heaven forbid having a positive enjoyable experience while playing a game.

JDRyder · Sep 11, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

@ JDRyder

Are you a pugger ??

If yes, how do U know that 7 heroes are bad for pugs ??

How come you still didn't notice pugs are bad ???

Have you ever seen a good pug ?? Have you ever found a pug in Snake Dance ??? Can i pm you to help me with Snake Dance or should i take henchman ???

DoA = 2 players with 6 heroes !!! If that's your only concern, then restrict to 2 human to enter those place. But then again, 8 perma/terra can clear the whole UW in ??? 10-30 mins ?? but i could bring my 7 heroes ?? why not ?

i do pug,friends,H/H and guild i said that a page ago.

People have already given reasons go back and read them

I already said some are bad and some are good go back and read what i said about pugs

Yes ive seen many good pugs, go read back a few pages.

What? is snake dances to hard for you to H/H? if so get a guild

You still need to have a friend, guild or pug to do so. I had it my way you'd need 7 other friends/guildies/pugs to do so, or at least take heros down to 1 per person

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

heaven forbid having a positive enjoyable experience while playing a game.

like ursan?

Sleeper Service · Sep 11, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

if we had it your way JDRyder GW would be DEAD.

how bout you stay in your guild and stop posting crap.

trankle · Sep 11, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

i do pug,friends,H/H and guild i said that a page ago.

On the occasions you H/H, what are your reasons for doing so?

eximiis · Sep 11, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

i do pug,friends,H/H and guild i said that a page ago.

People have already given reasons go back and read them

I already said some are bad and some are good go back and read what i said about pugs

Yes ive seen many good pugs, go read back a few pages.

What? is snake dances to hard for you to H/H? if so get a guild

You still need to have a friend, guild or pug to do so. I had it my way you'd need 7 other friends/guildies/pugs to do so, or at least take heros down to 1 per person

Not everyone has guild, or want's a guild. Yes we could use H/H but why not just heroes.

Because you want more failure in pugs, i have to use henchmen. What if i get the 7 heroes (i'm happy) and you continue to play whatever way you like.

i made a example with Snake Dance. 75% of the explorable are empty. It's not just Snake Dance.

JDRyder · Sep 11, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Not everyone has guild, or want's a guild.

not every 1 wants 7 heros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Yes we could use H/H but why not just heroes. Because you want more failure in pugs, i have to use henchmen. What if i get the 7 heroes (i'm happy) and you continue to play whatever way you like.

the game would be way to easy with 7heros, 3 heros already make it easier then needed. think about the builds that people come up with just 3heros, and then think about what they could come up with if they added 7heros. This is not a SP game there are no cheat codes, if some content is to hard for you, get better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

On the occasions you H/H, what are your reasons for doing so?

whats your reason for posting? thats a bad Q imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

if we had it your way JDRyder GW would be DEAD.

how bout you stay in your guild and stop posting crap.

not having heros would have done nothing, we'd still have the game the way it was before heros and the game would not be dead. If all the people that only play H/H left the game it'd do nothing to the game anyway other than make ecto go up.

Sleeper Service · Sep 11, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT.

there a ton of other arguments posted previously but hey if you cant be bothered to read and all you want is people to play your way and with you....well, prepared to be disappointed.

Tyla · Sep 11, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT.

People have already left. I highly doubt that is the doing of heroes though.

Whether or not Ursan, or heroes were good for the game, the poll results shouldn't determine whether it should be done or shouldn't.

I still think that 7 heroes should be in the game though, for reasons already stated.

eximiis · Sep 11, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

the game would be way to easy with 7heros, 3 heros already make it easier then needed. think about the builds that people come up with just 3heros, and then think about what they could come up with if they added 7heros. This is not a SP game there are no cheat codes, if some content is to hard for you, get better.

What about 8 human with pve skills, and Human brain ?? would that be better than 7 heroes ??

Imagine all the builds a 8 human could do !!.

We don't need 7 heroes because the game is too hard !! it's because pugs are bad and guildies are offline and we want to test out some builds. see the synergy betwen them, or just for the fun of playing with 2 mesmer in pve.

Can you be more inbalance 6 echo/CoP ?? come on, don't talk of 7 heroes being overpower !!

trankle · Sep 11, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

the game would be way to easy with 7heros, 3 heros already make it easier then needed. think about the builds that people come up with just 3heros, and then think about what they could come up with if they added 7heros. This is not a SP game there are no cheat codes, if some content is to hard for you, get better.

You do understand that real players are more powerful than heroes, don't you? Heroes are arguably better than humans in two instances that I can think of: minion targeting and interruption timing. On the other hand, a decent player can perform better than a hero in almost every other aspect of the game: positioning, target selection, using skill combos, intelligent interrupting, avoiding AoE, kiting, not single-mindedly chasing kiters, etc. A team of real players has more power potential than a seven hero group does. Add PvE skills to the mix, and I can't believe people are able to keep a straight face while claiming seven heroes would make the game too easy. Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

whats your reason for posting? thats a bad Q imo.

Well, it's only bad if you don't want to answer it.

If you are claiming that players should play with friends or guildies, or failing that, PUG's, but then you say you sometimes play H/H, then I'm wondering what could lead you to make that decision.

I have a couple guesses:

1. You are playing at a time when guildies/friends are not available/willing to join you in your chosen task, and you cannot find a PUG. If this is the case, you would be admitting that "play with other people" doesn't always work as an argument.

2. You are sometimes in a mood to play alone, or to do a task/quest that you feel doesn't warrant the process of grouping with real people. So you choose to help kill the game instead of playing with real players.

3. You do not actually play in full H/H parties, but wanted to claim you do in order to be able to speak with authority about them.

Since I only have guesses, I thought I'd ask. Care to answer?